![]() 07/14/2015 at 10:30 • Filed to: BMW, blackflag, jakestumphracing, track day, bro, 135i, oppositelock, oppo, adventure | ![]() | ![]() |
Speed is an addiction. Speed will take your time, your money, and your sanity. Speed leaves grown men dazed, mumbling incoherently about the importance of every tenth of every second. Speed is a cruel temptress, luring us in with glimpses of what could be, inflating egos and inspiring (false) confidence in talents and abilities, only to reveal herself as a fleeting fantasy, unobtanium for us mere mortals. We’re left wanting more, we’re left knowing intrinsically, that there
must
be more.
Speed is an addiction, and I’m back, again. I want more. I know that there is more. I
need
more.
The drive to nowhere is quiet. More time to obsess over numbers. In December of 2014, I actually made New Years Resolutions. Never in my 23 years, at that time, had I ever made New Years Resolutions, but with the encouragement of my girlfriend, I did. One of them was a 2:03 at Buttonwillow’s 13CW configuration. Last year, I had gotten down to a 2:09.5. 5.6 seconds from that was an ambitious jump. My track schedule for the year had 3 allotted shots at it then. This was number one.
I had made a few changes to my car since my outing at Button. The car now had a Torsen LSD via MFactory, the cooling system had been flushed with distilled water and water wetter, with the goal of lowering running temperatures, and I had fresh front rubber on the car. I was hoping that with the cooler February temperatures, and the changes to the cooling system, that I could keep the car running cool enough to turn the boost up from stock to my usual street setting of 13psi.
The drive to nowhere is uneventful. Turn over some mental movies of my last event at Button while idly cruising through the desert. Check into the same hotel, and slot the car in a free space between all the other racers at the hotel. Check out is going to be loud tomorrow morning.
People came out of their rooms, and some were taking pictures. It was 7:00AM and racers readied themselves for the day ahead. It was a parade of decibels at check out. The sounds of engines violently exploding themselves into motion, and the loud idles of one too many cars without mufflers. My people.
About 15 minutes later, there we were, all lined up outside the track gates, waiting to slither by the guards of the gate, and ready for track warfare.
Once inside, everyone began the frenzied scurrying that happens at every event. The unloading of supplies, pre-flight checks to cars, tire swaps, suspension adjustments, weight reduction.
Oh yeah, registration!
Timing transponders. 1 pound projectiles, swathed in orange jumpsuits, hooked to the outside of your car.
Crunch.
CRACK!
No. I didn’t. I couldn’t have.
I just broke my windshield.
In my excitement of doing pre-flight checks, and boy, are those exciting, I set my transponder on the windshield and began dithering about under the hood. My excitement continued as shocks were checked, and fluids inspected. Time to move on. I slammed the hood shut and heard the sound of money burning a painful, fiery death.
I didn’t have the foresight to think that the transponder was situated just right, so that if I shut slammed the hood shut, it would pinch between the hood and the windshield. The metal clasp of the transponder’s case punched through the base of the windshield.
My natural reaction was calm, cool, and composed. I screamed at the car “Fuck!” and walked away. About 37 seconds later, I decided that I had already come all this way, I was going to try and track the car with a broken windshield. I began some low speed tests, driving through the pit, looking for bumps to see how stable the crack was. Was it spreading?
Thank God for the event’s “self tech” process, that I completed before the car had a broken windshield. If I tell myself that everything is okay, and ignore the big crack in the glass right in my direct line of vision, then it is okay.
The search for speed had already begun showing it’s lurid, cool grasp. It was taking my money before I had even begun.
Session 1
What do you mean the GoPro turned off? Well, at least some good had come from it. Session 1 proved to be a great refresher on how to handle the track, and what to expect with the car, the way it drove, and what sort of speeds I should be expecting throughout the course.
Also, my quick and easy cooling mods seemed to have helped. Water temps were rock solid at 205*F (t-stat value), and oil was about 265*F. The JB4 has oil temperature protection, and bypasses itself when oil hits 270. So, I was just able to squeak out under that threshold, and the car was happily hitting 13PSI of boost.
My last outing here was at stock power, and I was able to do a 2:09.5. With the boost turned up, getting caught in traffic, I managed a 2:08.5 .
The crack in the windshield spread about 4 over the course of the session. Uhhh, it’s safety glass, right?
!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!
I got the bump, and was told to go play in the red run group with the fast cars. Huzzah!
The car felt good. Engine temps were still bang on and the car was running great. Traffic was still an issue. Our lap times may have been similar, but Buttonwillow rewards both power cars and momentum cars, so the flow can get a bit off. Also, with the boost turned up, the rear tires were struggling to keep up. Some areas where I could have used 2nd gear to power out were relegated to 3rd gear to keep those rear tires from blazing.
And the times just keep on dropping, 2:07.5 :
I like where this is going. What I didn’t like was that the crack in the windshield had spread another 4. It seemed like it would only move so much in a given session, and then just stop and stay put. Young and dumb, let me back out there!
Session 3
Excluding the windshield, everything about the car felt great. The mild weather meant the engine was in it’s happy place, and the car had a good balance to it with the fresh front rubber, which helped balance out some of the natural understeer built into the car.
However, you can’t beat everything. Funny enough, this video cuts out at the last lap I was able to complete during this session. I was really in the zone for this one, and after this I was on a mostly clear, solid-feeling hotlap until I came around sweeper, heading towards the esses and the back straight. The car choked and shut off. I looked down, and temps were fine, but I was completely out of fuel. I went through over 1/3 of a tank of fuel in this one session! The car had fuel starved on my cleanest hotlap of the day. Fortunately, I was able to coast the car from sweeper into the pits, and to the on-site gas station and fill up. Unfortunately, I saw track marshalls waving the checker as I was filling up. Damn.
Well damn, or be damned: 2:07.250 , another quarter of a second down! That last lap would have been a fast one, I just know it.
Hmm... Bode well for track day, this does not.
Aww man. At least the windshield isn’t leaking. As the clouds unleashed a small, but furious storm upon us, the event was halted.
Eventually, rain became drizzle, and drizzle turned to mist. Track marshalls began trying to dry off the track surface with a tractor and a large street sweeping attachment, hoping to whisk away all of the standing water. Slowly, event organizers began driving the track, hoping to clear up the racing line. Eventually, it was go time.
Session 4
Wet, slick, but drying, we were up. At least the sun was coming out.
2:10.6 on a damp track. Not bad. Not much else to say, really.
Actually, I do have one quick bit to get in here. I would like all readers to acknowledge that the windshield is a structural part of your vehicle. The reason that it was progressively cracking throughout each session was that it was giving a practical demonstration of chassis flex . The broken glass acted like a weakened link in the chassis, and any flex was put through the crack. This was an expensive science lesson, but still, neat to watch unfold.
Session 5
Didn’t happen. In the run group before ours, a Hyundai Veloster Turbo caught fire after going off track coming around the left hander and onto the main straight. The driver was fine. The car didn’t have any obvious exterior issues, looking from the pit lane wall. Just poof, up in flames! The emergency rescue crew were there in no time and doused the little Korean. Looks like some sort of mechanical failure in the engine bay started a fire. Marshalls towed the car back to the pits, and the inevitable mob formed around the car. It was covered in soot and fire extinguisher residue and water, so it was tough to tell what had happened.
There was oil on track. Perhaps a hot oil line blew off? Once they got the car off track, and cleaned the oil spill, we were told to gear up for a short session, 2 laps max, no times. The majority of us were sufficiently spooked, and headed back to grid. The day was done.
Blessings manifest themselves in strange ways. Right after coming back into grid, my friend Mika found 4 VERY loose wheel studs that surely would have resulted in a 3-wheeling FR-S, and not long after that, the crack in the windshield hit overload and the crack lengthened until it ran from side to side of the windshield. I guess we were done here.
The drive home was slow. Since the glass had suddenly devolved so greatly, I didn’t want to risk it collapsing on the ride back across Southern California’s bumpy roads. I dialed the suspension into full soft rebound and creeped along doing 55mph the whole way home.
The lighting isn’t great, but you can see that the crack had spread all the way across the length of the glass.
I was able to arrange for a mobile glass installer to come to my office in the following days to replace the windshield. A couple hundred dollars later, and we’re ready for action.
I’m thinking about commissioning for a custom vinyl that says “No transponder” and putting it on the bottom of my windshield. Call it insurance for the forgetful speed freaks among us.
I felt good leaving the event knowing that despite the traffic, and small issues, that the car still improved so much. There was a lot of time left on the table. I’m resolute in my resolution, 2:03 or bust.
I guess I just still want more.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 10:59 |
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Nice writeup! I really want to track my 135i, she is all stock though
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:00 |
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I work at a shop that has a CNC vinyl cutter, if you're really interested.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:13 |
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Nice write up. If I may ask, how much did they tap you for the windshield? My 335 windshield was $800 to replace, which I thought was very high, though that is OEM glass. The place told me it’s because of the rain sensor, which is within the mirror housing and has nothing to do with how much the windshield should cost..
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:16 |
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Great writeup!
Fun tip, some insurance plans actually cover cracked or chipped windshields. Most people don’t know this and just replace out of pocket. :)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:24 |
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Not true, most insurance companies have what's called a deductible.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:29 |
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Well, sure. But :
Some car insurance companies and some policies will allow for glass replacement without requiring payment of a deductible. Most likely, your coverage will cost more; however, you’ll save on your deductible.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:34 |
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Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. When it comes to glass coverage with comp/collision, I’ve had cracked windshields replaced at no extra cost to me, not even a deductable. Of course, if you start to abuse the privilege I’m sure they’d crack down on you. But really it all depends on your particular coverage.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:38 |
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So here’s a question about track insurance: You have to treat them like a one shot deal and pray you never actually cash in right? A good friend put his Elise into the wall in turn 1 at Watkins Glenn (Nascar layout). Still waiting on the final prognosis, but at a minimum it’s going to need a new front clip. Mostly likely suspension as well. He had the track insurance plan so he’s covered. We joked though, because the first question when he filled out his track insurance paperwork pre-track day was “Have you ever had a claim?” We joked that his rate just went from $230 to infinity...
I’ve never been though the claim process and this is his first time. Can he expect a super high price, or will he just be flat out denied track insurance.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:41 |
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In Florida, if you have full coverage on your car, a replacement windshield is free (no deductible).
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:44 |
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I have no idea, sorry. Every time I’ve gotten track insurance it has been a one-shot deal, but I’ve never wrecked on track. The organization I’ve done track days with, and got the insurance via, has had wrecks on track in the past but as far as I know they’ve never had trouble getting track insurance the next time out.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:48 |
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I really want a 135i - I’m not really crazy about how it looks, but I want that turbo 6 in the smaller car.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:52 |
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the m235 is very nice.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:54 |
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For future, I dont think the glass will ever collapse in on you. Im not sure you needed to worry.
In cold climates, a stone chip will develop into a full spider web from the freeze/thaw process. A lot of people will just leave it until spring (or longer!) as long as the middle of the web isnt right in your view.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:57 |
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Its an optional coverage.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 11:59 |
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We shall find out. He and his wife plan on double duty-ing the M3 at the next event. Thanks anyway.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:09 |
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Is it a thing to have a wonky track name? Butch Orbita? Derek Dicker?
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:15 |
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But it’s built into many plans, people often don’t realize.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:16 |
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Just took my stock 135is to the track last week (with about 6% tread left on my stock runflats) for a Track Night In America event. It was an absolute blast and i highly recommend it to everyone to get to the track at least once.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:18 |
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Spend the $1 more a month, get no-deductible glass replacement. It’s paid for itself on nearly every car I’ve owned (AZ highways = sandblasted windshield).
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:22 |
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“she is all stock though” - That’s no excuse. If your really want to, get out there. All stock will be perfectly fine your first time out. Only exception is if your tires are already close to shot and your brake fluid hasn’t been changed in the last 2-3 years.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:24 |
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Didn't see that option for my company.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 12:51 |
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Keep her stock until you get better. Best upgrades are for the driver, not the car. I’ve extensively tracked the 135i and really the only upgrade you will want to consider early is a set of camber plates to prevent tire wear. Power mods are the absolute last thing to do. I still don’t use power mods on track and still outdrive a majority of drivers with way more power.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:16 |
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I use this one. http://locktonmotorsports.com/product/hpde-i… your premium will be higher next time around because of risk profile but they’ll give you insurance. They allow a crash every so often but that’s about it. Ultimately, it will just all depend on all the variables.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:23 |
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Sorry must have been miscommunication! Shes all stock, but im itching to take it to the track. There were 3 track days that I was going to go, but last minute things came up and couldn’t (it rained 2 of the days so I didn’t go). I bought the car 2 months ago, CPO so has brand new brakes and tires all around. Fluid is OK but would need to be changed after 2-3 track days I believe. So excited :)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:24 |
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M235i was my first choice and was very close to purchasing, but found the 135i which was half the price and still had 2 year of warranty. A good interim car for 2 years until I am more settled :)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:25 |
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Not covered under my specific policy. I used to be an Auto Adjuster for a large insurance company. I like to believe I understand car insurance better than most. :)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:27 |
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Most insurers specifically exclude track days/performance driving from their policies. If you have a shunt, it’s on you. Driving on track is kind of like walking through shoot out in the wild west.
There are specific track day insurance groups, like Hagerty (?) among others. Usually, it’s a pay per event type of deal. Weigh your options.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:28 |
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I drove the car stock (just good tires and brake pads/fluid) on track and autoX for a year before changing anything. Good through my posts and you’ll see my general upgrade path. I decided to upgrade the car to balance out the useless driver. YMMV. ;)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:31 |
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Subjective I know, but I like the looks, it’s very punchy and bulldogged looking. Also hopes that I wanted the lightest car with the N54 and a 6-speed that I could get. Car was corner balanced at 3425# with me in it.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:32 |
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But they suck at limit handling, kind of like the 1-series. Drove one, thought it would be a great daily.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:36 |
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Actually, most California tracks have very practical names. Buttonwillow Raceway Park is in Buttonwillow, CA. I just throw some spice into my titles because I’m corny. Though, I do object using the word “Willow” at any of these tracks, as trees in general are few and far between.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:38 |
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Ill take a read after work! Car is super fun stock, doesn't need anything to be changed for now. I came from a MKV GTI fully done up. Intake/exhaust/suspension/tune/engine mounts etc.. Drove great, fun tight little car. But 135i is a completely different beast.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:41 |
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I really recommend just throwing some good street tires on it, and going to autocross. It’ll quickly teach you about the car, and expose any perceived weak spots. The 1’er isn’t perfect, but neither are we, it’ll teach you a lot about being patient in getting the car the car to turn. It still smacks me around when I get too ham-fisted.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 13:59 |
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Yeah, the turn in is very sharp but I can see if being a handful if you aren’t smooth, because of the short wheel base. I notice already and can feel the open diff coming out of slower corners. They are the stock spec run flat tires, which are summer but meh. Probably drive until these are ruined (done a few ‘burrrrrnouts’) then ill get better tires for next summer. Took a quick look at your profile, looks like a lot of good posts! I will have to read and follow up. Yours is the N54 correct?
![]() 07/14/2015 at 14:04 |
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Yeah I know. State Farm flips out if you even mention tracking your car. I'm talking specifically about track day event insurance. Literally, the first question on the paperwork asked if you had any previous claims. My buddy is worried that because of what it's going to cost to fix his Elise, he won't be able to get a track day policy.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 14:06 |
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Yes, N54 with a 6-speed.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 15:14 |
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Insurance companies make money by not paying out claims. They will do everything to make sure they don’t have to pay.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 15:28 |
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I think Geico and Progressive have it, but I haven’t used either in some time.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 15:52 |
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Are you running the backend flash? 13 psi is a little low for a track boost, with the ER dual oil coolers I’ve seen people tracking with 17psi, some meth injection would’nt be a bad idea either. What bolt-ons are you running? Also, I was wondering how you liked the mfactory diff, was thinking of getting one myself.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 15:54 |
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obviously you’re not familiar with the n54, these “power mods” can actually be put on for reliability and boost can be kept at the stock 8.8 psi, but reliability is greatly increased. HPFP, turbos and all that stuff last longer with bolt ons at STOCK psi.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 16:02 |
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Car has minimal supporting/power mods. The car isn’t hurting for power, even stock. This was the first event that I ever ran greater than stock boost. 13# boost is Map 1, no backend flash. I lucked out that the car was running cool for this event, usually oil is 280+ and the JB4 is bypassed regardless of what I want.
At a recent event at Streets of Willow, my oil hit 300*F. Turning up the boost is generally a terrible idea on these cars for track work.
Don’t like ER’s kit, have seen too many of them in person leak their from the fittings, also, over-priced alert. I’m making my own bigger oil cooler set up with higher quality parts. I priced it out, and I can do it for about $400.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 16:06 |
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for those who dont know, the m235 has the n55 which basically has a lot worse of internals, just look on realoem.com, the crank on the n54 is a forged fully counterweighted crank whereas the n55 has only 4 counterweights. Theres also differences in the pistons and rods, thats why the n54 has made 860whp without opening the motor up at all.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 16:08 |
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hmm from what ive seen the n54 is lot more unreliable.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 16:49 |
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How dare you not mention what kind of car and what mods you have! I knew it was a 135 from the first picture because I own one but what year? Seriously, I want to know what mods you have and what year your 135 is. Great write up! I need to get to a track day with mine.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 17:12 |
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If you click on the videos, I list the prominent details there. Also, if you followed me on twitter Kinja, then you would know. ;)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 17:36 |
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This really gives me a lot of confidence in taking my 135i to the track. I’m so worried about things breaking on it. I've got pilot super sports in the rear and re002 up front. I'll leave the procede off for the track I think. Do you think my m3 control arms will negate the need for camber plates?
![]() 07/14/2015 at 17:47 |
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It’ll help, but perfect tire wear is difficult with BMWs. Certain tires work better than others for more stock-ish suspensions, the Dunlop Z2 comes to mind.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 17:47 |
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I cant watch the videos at work and I don’t have twitter. Apparently, I should get an account though everyone uses that -ish. Well written story and after reading everyones comments, I figured out most of your mods. Mine is a 2011 N55 with bolt ons, stock DP, and no tune. Great daily driver over my Evo X I had before. Love the looks of the 135.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 17:52 |
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The twitter bit was a joke on Doug Demuro constantly referencing twitter in his posts. I don’t currently tweet, I can barely manage an Instagram.
Here’s the long and short of the mod list:
2010, N54, 6MT; TC Kline coilovers, with Vorshlag camber plates; Eibach front bar; JB4 Map 1; 255 Hankook RS3 squared; MFactory Torsen diff; Intake/Exhaust (stock DPs/IC, etc.).
![]() 07/14/2015 at 20:20 |
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Great write up. Takes me back to the four or so track days I did at Buttonwillow around 2010 in my now sold 911.
I’m feel like I have the track ingrained in my head along with all of the stupid shit I did as I was trying to learn.
It reminds me of golf. In between all of the fuck ups, there would be a moment or two where you felt like you were on a roll and it would erase the embarassment of all of the things you screwed up. It puts a big grin on your face knowing your lap time would come down and it was enough to keep you coming back for more.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 20:38 |
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Button has me hooked more than any other track I’ve been on. I touched some possible reasons why so many racers seem intent of conquering this track here: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/buttonwillow-t…
![]() 07/14/2015 at 22:02 |
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Thanks, I’ll be looking into mine.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 22:24 |
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I love the sound of your car, it’s freaking awesome ;)
![]() 07/14/2015 at 22:46 |
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I guess I'm still not familiar with the N54 after tracking one for 4 years...You don’t increase reliability with a tune. Sure a better intercooler or cooling system can help reliability due to temps, but any flash or piggyback (while it might do things like run the water pump at higher speeds), will also wear those parts out faster than stock DME. I’m curious as to what you’re referring to.
![]() 07/14/2015 at 22:50 |
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You’ll want to change the fluid BEFORE you go to the track. Use ATE Type 200. Not only does this fluid have a higher BP than your stock fluid, but that stock fluid likely has absorbed water due to its hygroscopic properties. This will decrease its effectiveness and you will likely boil the fluid.
![]() 07/15/2015 at 09:01 |
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Yeah I will probably need new fluid, but I want 'baseline' feel for the car all stock. Won't be aiming for Schumacher lap times, but just a feel for the car near its limits.
![]() 07/15/2015 at 10:08 |
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3.0L Straight-6 Twin-Turbo + No mufflers = :)
Also, I made several exhaust comparison videos testing different exhaust setups on the car:
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
![]() 07/23/2015 at 16:15 |
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Notice I said 8.8 psi (Stock boost) ie. no tune. Obviously a tune reduces reliability. Ive owned 4 n54’s done just about everything under the sun to them. Even helped Vargas develop the current turbo kit. Tracking a motor doesnt mean you know the motor. Tearing it apart, changing parts, custom fabbing, etc. is what teaches you about the motor and how it responds to certain parts, scenarios, etc.
![]() 07/23/2015 at 16:21 |
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Maybe as far as turbos are concerned, aside from that most of the parts that fail (HPFP, LPFP, VANOS solenoids, valve cover gasket) are all the same on the n54. In terms of internals, the N54 has a lot more going for it. It also doesnt have valvetronic, so theres one less thing to go wrong. The n54 also doesnt have a MAF which makes tuning and intake setups a breeze compared to the n55. Theres a reason all the performance models at the time of the n55’s release kept the n54, like the 1m, z4 35is, and 335is.
![]() 07/23/2015 at 16:23 |
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Ive seen them leak as well, but fixing a fitting leak is a quick and painless task. I just got the oil oil thermostat delete which did a surprising amount in abusive mountain drives. I have yet to take it back to the track after the thermostat delete. 13psi is plenty of power on my 335i, I can only imagine it being that much more insane for the 135i. I just got power hungry and wanted more.
![]() 07/25/2015 at 08:33 |
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It’s more painful when you’ve double checked that everything is fastened to spec, and it’s still leaking. ;)
Did extensive testing with the t-stat delete, not the right fix for the problem:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/my-thoughts-on…
![]() 07/26/2015 at 13:24 |
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Nice write-up. Seems like you’ve had a slightly different experience than I did. I went back and forth between the T-stat delete and the OEM one on both my manual and auto 335i’s. While the warmup times were longer, I hit 190F 1-2 miles into a morning commute. I have seen the car take a while to warm up but usually 1-2 min of idling does the trick. On somewhat demanding mountain drives my temps would hit 220F in my manual and 240F in my auto. I only tested the MT on the track but temps barely passed 250F, maybe 255F. While it’s understandable that the lack of oil warm-up can increase engine wear. I messed around with some viscosities and usually run around 15W-50 on these motors which has worked beautifully with the T-stat delete.
![]() 07/30/2015 at 13:04 |
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How hard are you pushing/do you have reference lap times? I didn’t have overheating issues until I started getting faster.
![]() 08/01/2015 at 14:45 |
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My best was a 1:59 at infineon, after the heat soak on a ~82F day i was averaging around 2:07. That was with turbos that were churning out smoke. I changed the turbos on jack stands, but never took the car back. Im gonna give it another shot with VTT 2+’s and an oil cooler setup down the road. I was running meth for few runs but it wasn’t consistent enough for the track, but when it was flowing the heat soak was almost unnoticeable. These cars have a relatively thin oil viscosity spec, switching to thicker oil did a lot more than I expected.